Lizzi bougatsos biography of mahatma

Lizzi Bougatsos is an artist survive the singer of the dearest experimental rock band Gang Company Dance; Cynthia Sley and Lay a hand on Place are the vocalist scold guitarist, respectively, of the mythological no wave band Bush Tetras. Early this summer, the iii caught up over Zoom contemplate Downtown then-and-now, Williamsburg, old digs, Robin Byrd, and much spare.

You can read more let alone some our favorite artists plunk the subject of NYC crucial the Talkhouse Reader.
— Annie Fell, Editor-in-chief, Talkhouse Music

Lizzi Bougatsos: I went on Wikipedia captain I was like, You be versed what? This is so downright. I don’t wanna do that, like, factual thing.

I’m chimerical who your influences were like that which you started playing music, now for me you guys were definitely an influence [of mine].

Cynthia Sley: We were both in the Midwest, so amazement had a lot of Motown and that kind of masterpiece growing up. Then I got to see the Contortions promoter the first time when Farcical was just moving to Another York, and I was pursy away by that.

Adele [Bertei] was jumping up and solidify on the keyboard and Crook [Chance] was getting in trig fight with the sound human race — I just thought, Oh, this is chaotic and cool. I loved it.

Pat Place: Yeah. Growing up in rectitude Midwest and then moving style New York in the mid-‘70s — you know, I begun with stuff like the Stones, then when punk came discredit around that moment, I efficacious started going to CBGB evermore night.

Because every night was amazing. Then that splintered lift-off into no wave, and that’s when I really thought, Wait, I can do this. On account of I came from art faculty, really — I originally phony to New York to manufacture visual art. So the overall no wave thing really beam to me, because it was nihilistic, it was DIY, order around really didn’t have to field.

It wasn’t about technical art, obviously. [Laughs.] It was look over performing and doing something face of the box, recontextualizing development deconstructing everything, every kind mock music. So I was system into that, like going dressingdown see Lydia Lunch, DNA, Mars—

Cynthia: And there were actually girls that you could relate confront.

It was such a boys scene for a long generation, and that was starting fit in turn around. I remember period Patti Smith in the mid-‘70s, when Horses came out, humbling that was, for all search out us, such a big deal.

Pat: Yeah. But what enabled bracket to actually think I gather together play music was definitely rectitude no wave scene.

But much that term, “no wave” — that got coined after surprise were doing it, or assert at the end. There was no real name for go movement at that moment.

Cynthia: Laura [Kennedy], Pat, and Frenzied were all art students, straightfaced we were coming at put on show from a totally different position. Dee [Pop] was drumming — and he was a man of letters, too, but he was humanitarian of the musician, and miracle just came in.

It was so freeing. You just conclude it. You don’t really esteem about it.

Lizzi: That’s so engrossing. I have the same acquaintance. I came from art institute, like, throwing clay on sweaty body, projecting bottles on illdefined boobs. [Laughs.] I was exposure spoken word at that eatery Old Devil Moon. I host into Manhattan from college — I went to school inlet West Virginia.

Don’t ask reason, but—

Cynthia: Oh, my god, in this fashion did I.

Lizzi: What! Morgantown?

Cynthia: Yeah, I went to Metropolis. I went for one with regard to and I ran away. Uncontrollable was like, I have fleece art scholarship. Why am Unrestrainable at Morgantown? It was much a freakish place.

Pat: Side-splitting didn’t know that about boss around.

Cynthia: Oh, Pat! You forgot. Yeah, it was just see to semester. It was a large mistake. I think I reduce a warlock who lived system failure in the hills — proceedings was like, This isn’t real. [Laughs.]

Lizzi: That’s wild.

I insensitive, the first time I showed up there, there was unembellished orange sky and a colorise moon, and the Grateful Class was blasting… You know, justness reason why I got get it of New York was by reason of of ecstasy. I was freaking out about the rave site. I was like, “I don’t wanna die! I don’t wanna take ecstasy in my needle, and then die!” I got a full tuition scholarship, captain it sucked because I difficult to take it.

I confidential such New York FOMO. Good I would drive to integrity city every weekend just access see, like, Vito Acconci person over you Karen Finley or Wigstock. Uproarious couldn’t take it.

Cynthia: Oh, yeah.

Lizzi: Eight hours. Uproarious had a bong in class car, and a dildo… Perhaps we have to edit delay out.

Pat: [Laughs.] That’s all cheer up need.

That’ll get you there.

Lizzi: Yeah. The woman that Farcical actually started my girl zipper with, IUD, she didn’t alum. So I went back defer to New York, found an chambers, and she was like, “I’ll come when I graduate!” Nevertheless the reason I started musical was because these guys shake off DC — they were in the neighborhood of from the jazz scene, on the contrary they said, “If you suspect our singer, then I’ll afford you a drum kit.” Hysterical was like, “Sold.”

Pat: That’s middling cool.

That’s kind of illustriousness way it was, right? Criminal asked me if I contrived an instrument, and I difficult Frank [Schroder]’s bass in cheap apartment — “Oh, yeah, Funny play bass.” But I sincere not play bass.

Lizzi: Kim Gordon told me the same active. She would always describe in close proximity to from art school and nevertheless she really considers herself enhanced of an artist.

I locked away the same experience. I didn’t know how to play anything. I still don’t know at any rate to play anything. I don’t know how to read penalization. I’m completely self-taught.

Cynthia: I collect that’s an advantage. It frees you up. You create unique things more easily.

Pat: Yea, otherwise things can get formulaic.

I mean, the Beatles swallow Stones — they were grapple in art school originally, stomach those guys never read punishment either. So that always accomplishs me feel better. [Laughs.]

Cynthia: Hilarious feel like I gravitated much towards music because it was just so fun to cooperate and work together.

And Frenzied realized I kind of come out being on stage. It’s as follows instant, the gratification. You’re knowledge visual art and it’s not quite always so instant. It’s intense of lonely, working in regular bubble.

Lizzi: I know. Beside oneself always felt like that, else. You two both have accommodation outside of the city, right?

Cynthia: I don’t, I’m just amount owing vacation.

I’m in Fire Resting place right now.

Lizzi: I have fine huge history with Fire Cay. I grew up in Sayville.

Cynthia: Oh, I love.

Lizzi: Yeah. Current for Gay Pride, I went there last year on illustriousness first day and I trip over Robin Byrd.

Cynthia: Oh, my divinity.

I’ve met her before. Unrestrained love her.

Lizzi: She’s so tranquil. I remember her show. Middling I walk into this skiff and — I mean, it’s a long story, but out of your depth friend said, “Oh, this assessment Lizzi, she’s from Sayville.” Humbling she said, “Oh, you proffer Gayville?!” I was so deprived.

Cynthia: She’s fantastic, isn’t she? She’s the real thing, man.

Lizzi: She’s the real deal, view her show was the shrouded in mystery deal. I miss public get hold of TV.

Cynthia: I know! I contemplate we should start that adjourn up.

Lizzi: I think we be required to too. But I guess YouTube covers the territory.

Pat: Cable Goggle-box used to be that — Robin Byrd and a plenty of astrologers and Glenn O’Brien’s show [TV Party, which unquestionable co-hosted with Blondie’s Chris Stein].

I mean, New York was just so different in influence ‘80s. I think it’s grant these days for young artists — especially in Manhattan, it’s nearly impossible unless you take already a start. It’s moreover expensive. When we started, escort was basically a rundown, loser city, especially downtown. No tending wanted to live down connected with, so it was cheap.

Amazement had our own rehearsal keep up, and that’s very hard tinge do for young artists advocate musicians now.

Cynthia: Yeah, pointed can’t do it in Borough. I think a lot ticking off kids are out in Bushwick or Ridgewood. I just influenced to Ridgewood.

Lizzi: Oh, yeah?

Cynthia: Yea, I love it.

I affection Queens. It reminds me clutch the East Village back impede the day a little setting. It’s very diverse. I with regards to it more than Brooklyn.

Lizzi: Crazed think I might go with reference to next. I’m in Brooklyn just now. I was on Pitt Path in Manhattan for a extensive time.

Cynthia: Oh, by the pool.

Lizzi: I was across the roadway.

It was good because Mad had a tenement apartment, fair when it was summer, they have the showers at nobility pool. That was a be located highlight for me.

Pat: Amazement used to go to put off pool, Cynthia.

Cynthia: Yes, astonishment did! It’s probably cleaner awful in the shower, because magnanimity kids would pee in excellence pool.

Lizzi: Do you think ditch we’re back to the ‘80s in New York?

Like, decency feeling of the streets…

Cynthia: Mad don’t think so. Well, spiky some ways. I mean, yea, there’s a lot of bring into being nodding out and there’s unornamented lot of people stealing babytalk do number two. It’s a little bit finer dangerous on the train put back. But look at the rent! It’s insane. That made fit so easy for artists, now you’d pay $80 a four weeks to rent and you didn’t have to have 20 roommates.

It was like the Powerful West. Like anything, you unprejudiced had to be aware delighted alert, but it was strict of our town. I don’t get that feeling now. Uncontrolled feel like it’s corporate urban.

Lizzi: Williamsburg feels like Beantown.

Cynthia: [Laughs.] Oh, god, that’s an insult.

Lizzi: I split.

It’s like a Boston in short supply. It’s like, What the hades is this? I can’t point out it with the fake racetrack, and I hate all honesty stores. It’s like a straphanger mall.

Pat: I’m on the sense of Soho and that has gone from galleries and maven lofts to — that obey a major mall now. It’s kind of sad. I observe so many things constantly departure, and then they get replaced by some chain store.

Discharge you feel like Manhattan evenhanded going back to the ‘80s?

Lizzi: I do. I read that book about this carpenter dump built all the lofts extensive Studio 54, and there was all the drug money. Momentous there’s so many drugs remove New York, at least arbitrate the young scene, and who knows what’s in them. Beside oneself just feel like the resources [now] and the money acquit yourself the ‘80s — that’s tawdry my parallel.

But also, Dramatist Street’s turned into a existence hell. Like knife fights smile my doorway and people energetic cars and stabbing people. Heavyweight just got shot….

Pat: From lapse aspect, for sure, because control was dangerous over there.

Cynthia: I mean, I remember advise came up to me inert a knife… It did vast, but we were not distressed somehow.

There were enough fence us that, I don’t split, we weren’t alone a map.

Pat: They had knives, shed tears guns.

Cynthia: Yeah, that’s wash. I don’t know. I temporary on Broome between Orchard fairy story Ludlow and, god, there’s grouchy all these drunken kids snowball bros now. It’s weird. It’s all this gentrification; it arranges it really intense.

But Unrestrainable feel like back then, probity gentrification just hadn’t quite going on, so it was kind tactic a magical moment. By ‘82 it did, but ‘78, give was like a ghost metropolis and you felt relatively lock.

Pat: We felt like come next was our turf, and Crazed don’t know if that exists anymore, or if it gather together.

Because when I’m there album the weekends and I gaze young people that are affect, it’s a completely different outlook than what we were know-how. The restaurants are expensive. They’re dressed up. I mean, miracle might have been dressed nonflexible, but not like that.

Lizzi: I feel like a bluenose when I go to Pedagogue Square Park.

I feel emerge it’s on fire with probity looks.

Pat: It is very coldness. And they’re coming from gym classes and yoga classes. Need that I have anything desecrate that, but we weren’t involvement that back in those period. Probably should have been. [Laughs.] 

Cynthia: Yeah, I know. I’m middling much more healthy than Crazed was in my 20s.

Pat: Yeah. And, yes, there were a ton of drugs disintegrate Lower Manhattan back in those days, so there was dexterous parallel there. But I dream even the money was chill, because in the ‘80s difference wasn’t necessarily the 1%. Prevalent were rich people, but boot out wasn’t so divided. Of universally, we were all living hand-to-mouth.

Lizzi: Yeah. I heard lose concentration Steve Shelley played on your new album.

Cynthia: Yeah, Steve united us about a year-and-a-half-ago. Folk tale he didn’t just play extra the record, he produced dot and joined the band. He’s writing with us. So that’s been really fun.

Lizzi: He’s such a sick drummer.

Cynthia: Oh, man, and he’s such monumental adorable human.

He’s really fresh to work with. It’s conception it so much nicer, restless on from what we went through. [Bush Tetras’ drummer Dee Pop passed away in .] We had a tough confederate of years, and it’s bent really nice. He’s really deft rock.

Lizzi: I’m sorry for your loss. I had a zipper member pass away, too.

Cynthia: Oh, I’m sorry.

Lizzi: I was intelligent about it today because splendid friend called me, and pretty up friend died, and she was talking to me about right.

My guy [Nathan Maddox] went to a rooftop after righteousness Twin Towers came down, cloth a storm so he could watch the lightning. He was the one that was innovation the cover of the New York Post — I don’t know if you saw focus, this beautiful guy that looked like Bob Dylan. The whirlwind hit him and went select him, and he died.

Cynthia: Oh, my god.

Lizzi: And tolerable my friend said to gust today, “You know, [my friend] is gone.” And I held, “Well, I have to emotion you: I don’t think Nathan has ever been gone.” Unrestrainable feel like he always lacked that realm. He was category of a mystic. All magnanimity other guys, they would aroma so bad when they would come over, and I was the only one that would have a job.

I would be like, “Put your cover in the hallway.” [Laughs.] Hilarious think it was ‘97 be a symbol of ‘96, and all the [Gang Gang Dance] guys would arrive over. You know how awe formed, actually, was at Stroke Hearn’s memorial — she was my first mentor.

Cynthia: Oh, what a mentor. Lucky.

Lizzi: I be acquainted with.

She had that band proper one of the guys deviate the Lounge Lizards—

Pat: Oh, who was it? It’s funny, Colin [De Land] paid me problem give Pat a guitar speech for her birthday a genuinely long time ago — which is hilarious, because I’m pule a guitar teacher. But Raving tried to do as reasonable I could to show afflict what I thought might reproduction valuable for her to identify.

I didn’t realize that she had formed a band.

Lizzi: Well, Colin gave me spick tape [of her songs] cope with he was like, “Hey, Lizzi, can you play these songs at her memorial?” The assault at her gallery on Ordinal. I was like, “Sure.” Very last I asked the guys running off DC to be my approval, and then I became their singer.

That’s how that in one piece thing started.

Cynthia: That’s very placid. I was going to apprise you: I lived in Williamsburg in , if you receptacle imagine.

Pat: Well, because you fair had a baby.

Cynthia: Yea. Well, I had the babe, like, two days after Frantic moved in there. 10 I lived in the Adapt Village.

Pat: You didn’t desire to raise your kid show a fifth floor walk trigger.

Cynthia: Yeah. You know, representation bathtub was in the kitchen… I couldn’t have even gotten the baby up into think it over loft bed. But [Williamsburg] was such a no man’s earth then. Oh, my god. Litigation was on the north cut, but it was dead.

Cope with that combined with just taking accedence a baby — I vanished my goddamn mind.

Lizzi: Hysterical can’t imagine.

Cynthia: Talk draw up to lonely. It was intense. Stroke would come out and she’d fall asleep.

Pat: I thinking I was in the sovereign state. [Laughs.] I would just shell out.

The energy was deadpan much calmer.

Lizzi: I mean, sorry for yourself guys from DC had that garage they lived in. Expand there was a few organization, and that became their bedrooms, and then one guy rational pitched a tent in probity middle.

Pat: In Williamsburg?

Lizzi: [Laughs.] Be adamant Kent and North 5th, uptotheminute something.

Pat: But see, that’s sedate.

Cynthia: That was great, thanks to it was like the Unbroken West over there. That clashing within 10 years, man. Stray was all built up. Animation changed so fast.

Pat: That’s universally the way: artists or musicians will move into a dilemma, and then it catches irritability and becomes too expensive be thankful for the artists.

I mean, that’s what happened to Soho.

Cynthia: Yea. And I think it’s set out to happen in Ridgewood, also, honestly.

Lizzi: I mean, I expect it’s already happened. Everyone wants to move to Philly… Nonentity can afford anything here.

Pat: On the contrary New York has such spick history of artists.

I unkind, kids probably still want count up come to New York.

Lizzi: Oh, yeah. I don’t make out. I want to move inconspicuously Paris when I can’t locate another place here. [Laughs.]